05 EN: The Groove of Hydrodynamic Bearings - Eddy Grooves by Miba Industrial Bearings Osterode

00:00:05: If the bearing isn't working or in an environment that it's in, is wrong.

00:00:09: The piece of equipment will fail if its a power station... ...the piece of equipments producing electricity would stop.. ..the power stations not producing anything.

00:00:19: So generally this is catastrophic to output from the

00:00:23: plant and if it fails And you can manage

00:00:26: to

00:00:27: keep temperature on certain lower level You protect your oil And if you protect your oil, then you can run the machine longer.

00:00:37: The interval between you have to maintain your oil... ...can be longer and so

00:00:42: on.".

00:00:43: Welcome to a new episode of Mieber Inside!

00:00:45: Miebers Tech Podcast for Mieberg colleagues….

00:00:47: …and all fans of technologies for a cleaner planet.

00:00:51: Here we talk about what normally no one sees – the technology inside engines, trains ships wind turbines hydropower plants power grids and much more.

00:01:01: Our experts from Mieber explain how our components help products and applications run safer, more reliably... ...and more energy efficiently.

00:01:11: And why in several of these specialist fields we are among the technological world leaders?

00:01:17: In today's episode will talk about how hydrodynamic bearings that are exposed to extreme loads in engines & drives stay cool and don't overheat!

00:01:28: My guests today are Neil Weskin, key account manager at Miebe Industrial Bearings Germany in Osterode and Stefan Faulhaber, technical manager also from Osterote.

00:01:37: Welcome here!

00:01:39: Thank you for coming.

00:01:40: Thank you thank you.

00:01:41: my name is Otron Schandel.

00:01:43: I'm the host of this podcast.

00:01:45: At the beginning of the episode.

00:01:47: we'd like to get to know a little better.

00:01:49: so Here's some short questions.

00:01:52: How long have you been with MIEBE Industrial Bearlings?

00:01:57: Stefan.

00:01:57: Yes, I have joined MIVA in two thousand seventeen.

00:02:01: at that time we were the former John Crane company based in Göttingen as i said before and yeah since then i am responsible for the technical departments.

00:02:13: so almost nine years.

00:02:14: it's

00:02:14: been... Almost nine years.

00:02:16: yes

00:02:16: right now What is your background?

00:02:19: My background is from my education.

00:02:21: I'm a mechanical engineer and before i've joined MIBA, I worked more than twenty years in the turbo machinery business.

00:02:28: Turbo Machinery Business is exactly our customer business!

00:02:32: Great so you have the greatest insights actually?

00:02:36: In terms of...

00:02:37: I have some insides.

00:02:38: yes

00:02:40: So Neil how about

00:02:40: you?!

00:02:41: Um..I've

00:02:41: work for The Bearing Scrooge since two thousand eight.

00:02:43: I joined him in two thousand nine and worked out of Ostrode.

00:02:46: um Since we moved there.

00:02:48: Two thousand

00:02:50: and nineteen?

00:02:50: Two thousand twenty-one.

00:02:51: Twenty

00:02:51: one Do you speak German?

00:02:52: No Nine

00:02:55: Nine One word at least.

00:02:57: I'm beer bitter.

00:02:58: Okay, so the most important words kind of

00:03:01: Yes

00:03:03: You come from England and Germany.

00:03:04: So how

00:03:05: much do

00:03:06: end up talking about soccer At work?

00:03:09: Does it stay within limits?

00:03:11: Unfortunately we don't talk about soccer because Neil doesn't like soccer He likes something else.

00:03:18: So, we have no common sports that can be talked about.

00:03:24: What is your sport Ben?

00:03:25: I

00:03:26: prefer rugby and Formula One.

00:03:30: OK!

00:03:31: We could talk about Formula One because obviously the greatest driver in a German car are Mercedes.

00:03:39: At least you've got something in common then... Your products, like most meaver components need some explanation because they're components and we are not making bread or anything.

00:03:49: It's a little more complex.

00:03:50: so how often do you have to explain it yourselves?

00:03:54: What do actually doing for our living on you?

00:03:57: basically just talk people off who already know what that is.

00:04:01: generally the majority of my customers I speak too.

00:04:06: Our engineers all from engineering environment so they aware expect into purchase.

00:04:13: Sometimes when you're looking at the procurement side, maybe they need a little bit more information.

00:04:20: but generally I don't need to explain anything.

00:04:23: And your friends and family?

00:04:25: In fact... When you are in business or talk with customers then do not have to explain any thing about technology of plane or hydrodynamic bearings.

00:04:35: But uh..in my private life i've always to explain what I'm working on, because talking about bearings means to them talking about roller element bearings.

00:04:47: Everybody knows roller-element bearing but only the minority know about plane or hydrodynamic bearings.

00:04:56: You said already that there are several expressions for this in English and all mean the same.

00:05:04: so it's not just plain bearings It's hydrodynamic bearings.

00:05:07: There are some other expressions,

00:05:08: right?

00:05:08: Sliding bearings, babbeted bearings...

00:05:11: Fluid film

00:05:13: bearings Yes.

00:05:14: So whoever is listening to that podcast now this is all the same.

00:05:18: We're talking about the same thing

00:05:19: And as long as and then The other type That we don't do would be anti-friction bearing ball bearings rolling rolling element bearings which Are a different field completely

00:05:30: Allright

00:05:31: And hydrostatic bearings because Hydrostatic bearings does not need any rotation.

00:05:38: So, let's just clarify what exactly are hydrodynamic or plane or sliding or whatever bearings where they used?

00:05:48: All of these bearings I use in so-called rotating equipment.

00:05:53: Rotating equipments means you have a shaft with high speed rotation.

00:05:58: this could be the shaft of steam turbine, gas turbine, compressor A pump, an expander.

00:06:07: So all these equipment huge equipment used in a huge plant chemical or petrochemical refinery plants are huge equipment very expensive equipment Very important equipment for the plant.

00:06:24: so everywhere where engines are working kind of

00:06:30: rotating equipment And I suppose we term it as turbo equipment.

00:06:35: So, its the... It's the equipment that is at the higher speed, high load, it's a larger equipment and tend to find whatever site you go too.

00:06:44: Its more important say like the centerpiece gas turbine steam turbine compressor of plant there will be lesser equipment That possibly won't require our equipment.

00:06:55: but key pieces would have a hydrodynamic bearing fitted

00:07:02: And we have to be clear on our denomination.

00:07:07: So, We do not call them engines.

00:07:09: Engines is more a combustion engine so it's diesel engine for instance.

00:07:15: what Neil said Turbo machinery turbo equipment turbo compressors or in general rotating equipment

00:07:24: All right!

00:07:25: The plane bearings hydrodynamic bearings are function critical component there.

00:07:30: If those applications have a problem, what happens if the bearing doesn't really work?

00:07:36: The way it's supposed

00:07:41: to be.

00:07:43: the piece of equipment that's producing electricity will stop.

00:08:03: The power station is not, not producing anything.

00:08:06: so it says generally its catastrophic to the output at a plant if it fails.

00:08:12: So huge consequences if the bearing doesn't really fit into the environment?

00:08:16: Not only for power stations but all plants where rotating equipments are used.

00:08:23: plant where you use different compressors to compress a different media, air nitrogen CO two and so on.

00:08:33: You need these gases compressed on certain level of temperature and pressure for your process And if the machine-the equipment fails as Neil explained The whole plan is out of production.

00:08:50: The thing we are talking about today, the hydrodynamic bearing is called eddy grooves.

00:08:56: And that's especially used in really unpleasant environments.

00:09:00: so turbo machinery for example exposed to very high loads of very high speeds or temperatures as you already said.

00:09:08: this is a case in gas turbines I guess.

00:09:11: Eddy grooves are normally fitted and it tends compressors that are being used beyond the design criteria, so it's running at a very high temperature and load.

00:09:28: And what we can do is we can then change the specification of fit an eddy groove bearing in which will them bring the temperature down.

00:09:44: Eddy grooves are typically or predominantly used in compressors at the time being.

00:09:48: Predominantly, we have used eddy groove bearings in other applications as well and another rotating equipment.

00:09:55: but uh... The majority is, as Niel said, used in so-called integrally geared compressors.

00:10:02: So high end or high speed compressors with different shafts, different speeds As I said, integrally geared And the pinion shafts, which apply the highest loads and speeds to the bearings are typically used or supposed to be used with eddy grooves.

00:10:22: The equipment of the machines have to work in a really very unpleasant environment.

00:10:28: it has withstand extremely high loads, high speeds higher temperatures.

00:10:33: so this is something that bearing's had to withstand.

00:10:40: how can Eddie Groove's especially help there.

00:10:43: If bearing is operating at high temperature, we can then offer an Eddie Groove bearing which helps with the bringing of the temperature down so that a bearing could stay within its design criteria and machine can operate longer rather than having failure due to oil issues if it operates beyond operating temperature limits.

00:11:12: So Eddy Groove sounds really cool, kind of nice.

00:11:16: Why is it called Grooves?

00:11:18: There must be some technical background behind that

00:11:20: because simply we mill grooves into the surface and to the babbeted surface at the trailing edge off the pads.

00:11:29: so It's called Eddy Grooveds Because We Mill Groove Into The Surface

00:11:36: Also known as Eddie developed.

00:11:38: No, no Eddie is some kind of.

00:11:43: it's a synonym for creating turbulence in the way.

00:11:48: so The purpose of eddy-groove.

00:11:52: Is to simplify explain to transfer laminar flow into a virtual Turbulent flow

00:12:00: off the oil

00:12:02: of the oil.

00:12:02: and they also exactly see all should get transferred from laminar flow regime into a turbulent flow regime.

00:12:13: That allows the oil to mix up with cooler parts or cooler areas, and in general it avoids that we have hotspots within the oil.

00:12:25: Avoiding hot spots in the oil means that we avoid degradation of the oil on short notice.

00:12:37: So these bearings work with oil.

00:12:39: The oil gets hot.

00:12:40: under this high loads and speeds, heat is developed.

00:12:45: And to better manage that heats That temperature you've built the grooves.

00:12:50: The grooves mix up.

00:12:51: kind of the oil Mixed-up the direction Of the oil kind of Running

00:12:55: in the same directions.

00:12:56: Rather than being just a smooth flow across the pad.

00:13:00: The eddy groove's created turbulence within the oil, so it's mixing.

00:13:03: So you get a better heat dissipation of the oil because what you don't want to do is keep the heat within the pad.

00:13:10: You want to try and get the hot oil that has been used Exhaust from the pad And fresh oil coming in The Eddy Groove assists That process with the turbulence Of actually mixing the oil and evacuating more Hot Oil From the bearing Pad.

00:13:25: Because the oil film Is very thin.

00:13:28: Then you can say, is it like a hair?

00:13:30: Is that thin or thinner

00:13:33: than

00:13:35: the

00:13:36: hair.

00:13:37: I do not know the diameter of an hair but twenty microns and oil film... The minimum oil film thickness between ten microns And thirty five microns somewhere in between for those applications we are talking about.

00:13:52: Of course We have applications where we have an oil film.

00:13:55: Minimum oil film sickness off let me say fifty or sixty microns.

00:14:01: Those applications that need or could really need eddy grooves do have an oil film thickness of probably twenty microns.

00:14:11: So this technology extends the lifespan of a bearing and plus it's able to withstand higher loads, is there correctly?

00:14:22: In theory, if a hydrodynamic bearing is in its ideal environment the design environment it would theoretically last forever.

00:14:30: It's only because of disruption to the environment that it lives fail and it's not normally the bearings problem.

00:14:37: It fails is because of the oil or the vibration,or the machine operators doing something wrong.

00:14:44: but you put the eddy grooves into the bearing to allow the bearing still meet its design criteria.

00:14:51: so that means a machine would be able to operate at its design element for probably start to fail a lot earlier due the high temperatures.

00:15:15: And if you protect your oil, then you can run the machine longer.

00:15:40: The interval between... You have to maintain your oil can be longer and so on.

00:15:46: How long is a lifespan of a bearing in general?

00:15:49: As

00:15:51: far as forever

00:15:52: Really?!

00:15:52: If we ever file

00:15:54: it!

00:15:54: If you operate a hydrodynamic bearing It means that you do not have metal-to-metal contact.

00:16:02: In all operational scenarios you have a minimum euthan, that separates the shaft from surface of bearing and do not have anywhere.

00:16:13: This is in theory why we had no real lifetime last forever.

00:16:22: but we don't live in an ideal world.

00:16:25: so lubricant is altering degradates over time.

00:16:31: If you do not maintain your lubricant properly then the properties of this media, this lubricant changes over time and then you have vanishing carbon deposits at high temperatures along with higher temperatures more degradation.

00:16:56: Let's take a closer look at these eddy grooves.

00:16:59: What is so special about this very Mieber innovation?

00:17:04: Because it's, It's a very simple easy solution.

00:17:08: we can equip every standard bearing with eddy groove without modification of envelope outer dimensions and so on.

00:17:16: So whenever you have a problem You can add This feature to the existing bearing And that makes this feature outstanding.

00:17:25: So there's no additional space necessary.

00:17:28: There is no adoption of oil or the oil supply system, necessarily nothing.

00:17:35: just apply eddy grooves and it will work.

00:17:40: customer benefit in that case Of

00:17:42: course.

00:17:43: Yeah.

00:17:43: for the customers It's cost effective compared to other options And it doesn't change any of the bearing design which quite a few would be Wary of changing the bearing design because it means they might be wrote a dynamic issues, so he doesn't make any have an effect on the road to dynamics with machine.

00:18:01: So for customer is perfect solution.

00:18:04: in every year and every situation

00:18:06: do these eddy grooves Make other more applications even possible that we're not possible with other hydrodynamic bearings.

00:18:15: yes Eddie groups as I said before or as We Have tried To explain Eddie Groves Contribute to lower Down The Temperature.

00:18:24: But in case your temperature level is quite good, it allows you to increase load.

00:18:31: Because typically along with increased load the temperature would rise.

00:18:36: So if your temperature levels are acceptable and over years of experience you have maintained this level without any problems then you can use eddy grooves for increasing load.

00:18:50: Increasing load at constant speed means increasing power density.

00:18:56: So for highly loaded bearings with high circumferential or sliding speed, this is an option to increase even more load.

00:19:07: So that means completely new possibilities open up for customers too?

00:19:12: New possibilities in terms of if you If the customer would like to manage, let me say give you an example.

00:19:20: Typically load limits are four megapascals unit load along with one hundred meter sliding speed or circumferential speed.

00:19:31: if the application needs one hundred twenty meters per second at four point five megapascal even five megapascales.

00:19:39: this could be probably we have to calculate it case-by-case of course, but this could be managed by the use of eddy grooves.

00:19:48: So does that mean with a concrete example?

00:19:51: With a gas turbine you get out more energy or can produce more at same time?

00:19:57: Customers typically get compressor specified and they'll run it to its maximum output.

00:20:04: So when you get to the maximum output or maybe it's becoming an old compressor and there is some wear inside, The bearing may be running hot.

00:20:11: And that allows a customer to carry on running the compressor at its optimum design speed without having bearing problems.

00:20:19: Or they can take an old compressor run further.

00:20:23: For OEM It offers the advantage of operate the bearing at a higher load without going to more expensive design of hydrodynamic bearing.

00:20:36: So for them, it's cost-effectiveness over say changing material because there would be an even more expensive material that we'd have produce the bearing out

00:20:44: off.

00:20:45: There are two options too.

00:20:46: let me save power.

00:20:49: so as optimum running speed As Neil mentioned you can or the OEM can choose high run speed when he uses eddy groove bearings.

00:21:00: At the same time, bearing could stay within its outer dimensions.

00:21:07: If you do not need to enlarge a bearing You can also reduce your power loss of the bearing.

00:21:16: First of all it allows the OEM To increase speed.

00:21:20: Increase speed means running new compressor A new compressor impeller at optimum speed more efficiently and reduce power losses of the bearings.

00:21:34: How did you even come up with giving these hydrodynamic bearings this special twist?

00:21:39: What's a story behind innovation?

00:21:41: How did the customer come up with that?

00:21:43: Or do you just keep trying and testing, developing.

00:21:47: It was Eddie wasn't it!

00:21:52: I don´t know whether the guy who has invented these grooves a long time ago... The first time he was named Eddie but basic technology is known for more than thirty years.

00:22:09: So we know about the first experimental investigations with Eddy Groove from mid of the eighties, off to last century.

00:22:18: But although those tests were successful in a way this technology was forgotten for couple reasons over decades and We have taken the opportunity To reinvent This technology and to figure out whether a specific shape of the grooves may help us improve performance.

00:22:47: And that's what we did in the past.

00:22:49: That sounds like this development is also big step forward for sustainability, right?

00:22:55: Because you can use the compressors longer... You can run systems longer!

00:23:01: So sustainability means also to protect your oil, because an oil unit and all supply system maybe uses twenty thousand liters for just one machine train.

00:23:12: And if you can manage not to replace your twenty thousand litres every five years but every eight or ten years it contributes to sustainability.

00:23:23: Great benefit.

00:23:24: You develop this, or Eddie developed his special hydrodynamic bearing in Osterode.

00:23:29: Please introduce your team.

00:23:31: who is working with you?

00:23:34: What are their backgrounds?

00:23:35: what kind of the mix are you all?

00:23:38: technicians or material scientists?

00:23:43: Who Are You In Osterote?

00:23:46: Yes The IND Team at Osteroda has five members.

00:23:52: At a time being we have engineers and technicians, we operate a test bench in our former gutting site still ingutting.

00:24:04: This testbench is very important for us because that provides the opportunity to really investigate into new ideas, into new features and to see whether the expected performance can be

00:24:20: gained."

00:24:21: How diverse in terms of disciplines engineers, technicians and how important is that to have a successful development of new component?

00:24:35: It's not only about the IND team.

00:24:38: The Team of Engineers & Technicians.

00:24:40: We closely cooperate with sales and other colleagues To really focus on those topics That are important for us and our customers or the other way around for our customers and us.

00:24:55: I think you were mentioned kind of in this answer, You want to add something?

00:25:00: I think they mention sales somewhere in that but it's...I don't think we're involved with development of it though.

00:25:06: It is more once its developed than sales come into it.

00:25:11: Probably not in the development of technical solution But every step ahead before we start working on a new IND project check whether our idea is really important for our ambitions, or strategy.

00:25:30: finally to our customer.

00:25:33: Do we gain additional value with such an investigation project?

00:25:42: That's the first question that you have to answer.

00:25:44: Supposedly evaluate if there are a market for it.

00:25:46: A market for

00:25:48: customers want

00:25:50: and so on... All these questions need to be answered.

00:25:55: Where's the journey heading for hydrodynamic bearing innovation?

00:25:59: So what can you imagine in future, is there any additional potential that still exists or are they already... Any concrete plans?

00:26:08: That's

00:26:09: a dangerous question and difficult one to answer!

00:26:14: No I don't think it's difficult to be answers.

00:26:19: We have three main directions of our development work.

00:26:22: One is material.

00:26:24: So we investigate in new material-material combinations and that's a discipline, an area where we closely cooperate with our colleagues from the engine bearing branch.

00:26:41: We also use the facilities and options we have at TCC in Lackierchen for.

00:26:48: The

00:26:54: second main direction is to investigate in increased power density.

00:26:59: Eddy Groove's an example for, which allows us keep the size of a bearing but apply more speed and load to it.

00:27:11: Our main direction is to work on our prediction tools.

00:27:21: To be more precise, increase the accuracy of predictions and calculate beyond limit of existing prediction tools.

00:27:34: because if we would like transfer limits then we need to have prediction tools that could also deal with those speed-load combinations.

00:27:47: Great.

00:27:48: And if someone wants to find out more about you, or your team in Osterholder on the bearings that are produced where can they find them?

00:27:59: If it's external obviously as I go through their website and get information from there which will cover any of those bearings... ...if its internal then I suppose the easiest route would be trying to communicate with somebody from Meeba Bearings Industrial Bearings Group.

00:28:16: Just don't talk about football with you.

00:28:18: No, don't ask me about football.

00:28:19: I know nothing about football and quite a lot about Formula One and Rugby.

00:28:24: But do You Know A big deal About Football right?

00:28:28: At least about the German Bundesliga?

00:28:31: yes of course i live in Dortmund so if you Live In Dortmund you have to be interested in soccer or football.

00:28:39: we call it football not Soccer.

00:28:42: So that will be the perfect first question for both of you, kind of asking about your favourite sports to get to know a little better and then continue with more in-depth questions about bearings.

00:28:53: To be

00:28:53: perfectly honest

00:28:54: we'll

00:28:54: have talk about football when they're UK as well because everybody loves football apart from if you come from the west country

00:29:03: Dear Neil, dear Stefan.

00:29:06: Thank you very much for

00:29:36: coming!